Curse

Fantus · Aug 25, 2005, 08:11 AM // 08:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vorlin

The 105/55 monks simply aren't that big a deal when it comes for any -other- person's enjoyment of Gwars PvP/PvE. I understand people's objections to the 105/55 build, but people with objections need to ask themselves the following question: "Would you want ANet to nerf one of -your- characters because someone else objected to it?". I think the answer would be a resounding 'No'.

Which exactly is the point. Nobody from the whiner/bitcher/nerf everything faction did EVER show ANY proof that 105 monks have a negative impact on ANYONE ELSE'S gaming.

It's not even the point whether Protective Bond is overpowered or not. The point is - assuming that Prot Bond IS overpowered - does it affect others or not? There ARE abusive methods of gameplay that affect others. Like

- wearing Forge Armor in Low Level Arenas (this DOES affect other players in a negative way)
- Spirit Spamming: Spirits never were meant to be used in such a way - and it DOES affect other players in a negative way.

If anyone calls for nerf of above things, they get my full support for it, although I won't start "NERF THIS NERF THAT" threads on anything here.

If anyone of the pro-nerf faction can show me ANY SUBSTANCIAL PROOF that 105 monks affect other players in a negative way, I will change my opinion. As long as they can't do it, I think that people who call to nerf 105 monks are either
- jealous or
- zealots or
- jealous zealots

People using 105 monk builds do essentially these things:
- they have more money
- they sell lots of items to traders or other players
- they buy items, either from traders or other players
- they can solo areas where other people can't solo or it's a bit harder for them to do so

So let's review the impact of this on the game:

- The last thing CAN NEVER affect other people since playing solo can't affect others by definition. They argument "Nobody should solo UW" is only laughable in my opinion. You might as well say "Nobody should drive a BMW" and it would be just as laughable.
- They have more money than others. Well, this by itself isn't a bad thing either. In real life, there are people having more money than others, too. We don't nerf that, too. Money by itself doesn't mean anything.
- They sell more items because they're getting more due to farming. This has been said many many times, is A GOOD THING since it KEEPS PRICES DOWN for everyone. Anyone having the slightest understanding of economy will agree that an increase of supply will decrease prices. And in GW, we all like low prices, don't we?
- They can buy more stuff because they have more money. The most expensive items in the game are the 15k and Fissure armor sets. Those don't give you an edge in gameplay, they only look better. Again, it doesn't affect anyone else.
Ok, now here it comes, they only thing in Guild Wars where 105 monkers will actually have an impact on other people... they can outbid most other players in player-to-player trade. If anyone sells his shiny golden godly uberweapon and a 105 monk wants it, he will get it because he will have more money than you. Well, so that's it. A bad thing, isn't it? Only that...

EVERYONE WHO THINKS S/HE NEEDS TO SHELL OUT 150K FOR A WEAPON THAT'S 0.05% BETTER THAN A COLLECTOR WEAPON IS COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY CLUELESS ABOUT GUILDWARS.

A 105 monk just outbid you for a 50k bowstring? He actually DID YOU A FAVOR and kept you from wasting money.

Oh... and even if you despite all good reasons want to actually buy other people's crap for tons of gold - you still can make a 105 monk yourself, can't you???

So, dear pro-nerfers - give me ONE FREAKING REASON why 105 monks are a bad thing! A broken skill is NOT AUTOMATICALLY A BAD THING. It's only a bad thing if it does affect others in a negative way. So, go ahead, prove me wrong.

Maiyn · Aug 25, 2005, 09:59 AM // 09:59

If they nerf it?

Yes.. absolutely.

(just want to add that I run a 105 monk, but I won't be too upset if they nerf it. I am bored to DEATH of the UW.. way rather do it in a team now :P And with new areas to explore on the horizon I am not really going to want to solo that. So really. I dunno. I have 4 complete characters. Any of which can farm, some less effectively than others. A smite monk can still farm even if they nerf the build.

We will just come up with another one. That is that !)

Elistan Theocrat · Aug 25, 2005, 10:17 AM // 10:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakbaros

Nothing should be nerfed as long as it effect PVP fights..
That 105 monk thing is not effecting pvp so why nerf it ..
I say no nerf if they nerf it it wont effect my pvp so why bother...

Nerf only that effect pvp, cause this game is all about pvp, and farming is just someone hobby, if they like to farm let it be... if they want pvp let it be..
ya no nerf.. nerf spirits group yayayaa..

Asinine, biased comment.
1.) its not all about you.
2.) its not all about pvp, anet is TRYING to balance both experiences, Personally I dont think it can be done, and I'd rather see them give people like your own little space to have your little repetitive battles over and over and get you out of the roleplaying game.

Bast · Aug 25, 2005, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Carebears losing their ridiculously limited farming build is the least of my concerns.

Isn't farming a little like digging for diamonds in a dungpile (omg, alliteration ftw!!!)? Do you really hate yourselves that much?

Fantus · Aug 25, 2005, 10:47 AM // 10:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bast

Isn't farming a little like digging for diamonds in a dungpile (omg, alliteration ftw!!!)? Do you really hate yourselves that much?

That's one possible way to describe it.

However, people have different tastes that is why the game should allow different ways to play it.

dargon · Aug 25, 2005, 05:17 PM // 17:17

Personally, I don't care if the build gets nerfed or not as I don't have one and I don't intend to. That said, I don't expect them to target the build specifically, though they may tweak one or more skills used in the build which could harm or help the build depending on what happens. This would fall in line with the other tweaks they are doing to other skills such as chain lightning and meteor.

Koroh · Aug 25, 2005, 05:50 PM // 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bast

Isn't farming a little like digging for diamonds in a dungpile (omg, alliteration ftw!!!)? Do you really hate yourselves that much?

That's actually a very good analogy. Workers used to smuggle diamonds out of diamond mines by swallowing them. Once they were out of the mine they'd dig them out of their feces. Hell, if there were diamonds in cow droppings, you'd see a bunch of people happily digging through piles of dung in every farmer's field! (visions of Monty Python)

Same thing with Farming UW. I don't think people actually enjoy the repetition of farming. They enjoy the rewards, but the actual act of farming can't be that entertaining. It's scary that people are willing to do something boring for the intangible reward of something like different style armour for an online character.

I've thought about this many times while playing online. There is no tangible reward whatsoever from playing these games. They're fun, but really they're just a highly efficient way to waste time. Imagine if you were getting paid $5 an hour doing something instead of playing a MOG. Not only would you still have your $50 you paid for the game, but you'd also have five times your invested hours in cash. Think about it the next time you see you've played for 571 hours.

If others want to waste their time digging through piles of dung, that's their perogative.

First there was UO
Then came EQ
You've played AC, DAoC, AO, GW, and a host of others....

But you haven't tried anything until you've played:
DUNG HUNTER 3D!!

Koroh

CKaz · Aug 25, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

re: topic - yes, and I hope they do

but this could take many different forms - ie more mobs with conditions/dots/enchant strippers where they love to live

Yamat · Aug 25, 2005, 06:23 PM // 18:23

Enchant strip is not the way... NR has already rendered enchants useless in PvP, lets not remove them from the remaining PvE areas.

LathalDraugr · Aug 25, 2005, 07:07 PM // 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bast

Carebears losing their ridiculously limited farming build is the least of my concerns.

Isn't farming a little like digging for diamonds in a dungpile (omg, alliteration ftw!!!)? Do you really hate yourselves that much?

Uh it's the carebears that are calling for a nerf.

PvErs in general are no more carebears than PvPrs are inbred 13-17 year old males who like to act tough on the internet and have a life expectency of about half an hour when they finally encounter the mysterious and enigmatic (to them anyway) "Real World". Both exist and both are subsets of their respective populations but neither are the archetypes for their group.

Pandora's box · Aug 25, 2005, 08:09 PM // 20:09

I'm always against nerfing, no matter what game. Rather than nerfing I would want other parts of the game to improve so the balance is back. In this case it means the balance issue is not to nerf the smiterbuild but to improve other skillcombinations. And its a big misunderstanding that the mo/wa build can solo UW, they can only do some mobs.

Looking at the Mo/wa discussions (and the simular griffon discussion) I think this is the way GW was meant to be: Testing skill combinations to the limit to find the very best one possible for your build. The fact that there are always players who research and players who just copy the results does not change that.

What I would do? There are many things I take into consideration before I would buy an expansion. This is one of them. But an important one! When I get the feeling that the whole concept of skills instead of items would be violated by Anet itself by nerfing skills I would centainly think twice before buying again. But it would not stop me from playing the game I now allready own... now and than.

kbealow · Aug 25, 2005, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Ok I just had another thing to say about the monk build...I personally want stop play GW if they "nerf" the monk build...because I personally don't use a solo monk...but my husband and a friend of mine does...and they already have 4 lvl 20's and theres nothing else for them to do...other than help me...if they don't do anything to the solo build...I'm going to give it a try...not for money cause I have plenty as is...but because I'm tired of playing with people who don't know what they are doing...for example and this is just one of many...I had a character that needed to do Thirsty River before she could accend...and I got in a group and they failed not because of the monk...the monk was actually good...but others who wouldn't time it right...so of course we failed...then I got another team and another...after 14 tries with teams...I started to think maybe it was my fault for all the failures...so I decided to take nothing but henchmen...and guess what...I finished the mission...with the first try...Which didn't surprise me beacuse 90% of the time I usally go for the henchmen over people...because I get tired of people not listing or not playing as a team...

My point is I think it would be refreashing to go solo...just so that I can be in control...and if I die I know it would be totally my fault...

Me personally I want anet to focus more on other aspects of the game that need to be adressed...like the UW the loot(if you go with a full team) SUCKS...ive went more than 10 times and got nothing not even a blue item...and the people i went with said that thier loot sucked as well...so lets focus on issues that need some attention...

And for all the people out thier that say "nerf this" and "nerf that" Stop telling people what to do with the game they paid money for...

Like I said earlier if you don't like people who use the build and you don't like the build don't do dealings with them and don't use the build...just my 2 cents!

Xeavor · Aug 25, 2005, 10:06 PM // 22:06

well said

Eonwe · Aug 25, 2005, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Ofcourse I would keep playing. Dumb question.

Age · Aug 25, 2005, 10:52 PM // 22:52

don't give then any ideas that's all.

Dualinity · Aug 31, 2005, 09:46 AM // 09:46

i think there should (and will be) always the posibilty to solo the UW, i think i still found a build to solo the UW (i havent played the 55 build, but i really want to see it in action). Protbond maybe too good...but after the change...it is still great skill. I made a protection/smiter build now, with 16 protection and 16 smiting. havent had the chance to try it...(caus i need shield of regeneration). But i think i can do griffon runs, and maybe solo UW

(soz for bad english and strange vocabulary :P)

boxterduke · Sep 09, 2005, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Yes, because if you are playing GW just for collecting money then you are not enjoying the game.

ozz · Sep 09, 2005, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagicDizk

My last game I played was Star Wars Galaxies; they did a major update to the combat engine, a lot of us left shortly after. I know a lot of us switched from that game to GG.

My question is if they nerf this Monk build will continue to play GG?

/signed NO

I was once a Star Wars Galaxies user with 4 accounts and 6 characters including a Jedi. Combat Balance came, so went my accounts, cancelled.

I switched to GW and, though I grew tired of it sooner than SWG; much sooner than I thought as in 3 months compared to 1.5 years, I still returned to the game and not the sooner for the updates.

I do not care if they make solo farming more difficult. I do not care if they make UW or FoW harder. I do not care how they adjust the game. I bought it to play Guild Wars. Not to solo farm, not to PvP, not to PvE, not to ....

I bought this game to play Guild Wars. If playing Guild Wars means experiencing change, then so be it. At least A-net has put in place a development team that is not lazy, that does take into consideration user input, that does not charge a fee then feed me a line of sweet nothing promises they won't deliver upon, they don't make decisions that ruin an entire game, and A-net does all this with updates free for what? a $50 price tag? Lol! Thank God they are not ex-Sony Online Entertianment employees!!! If only A-Net would sell their product to that bunch of screw ups.

NCSoft and A-net must be stupid to be the only one to sell a game for such a low price expecting to reap a profit then give away an update that was supposed to cost money -- after all how do they pay their employees.

Would I still play the game? WOULD I STILL PLAY THE GAME???!!!

YOU DAMN RIGHT I WOULD PLAY THE GAME STILL!!!

AcesOverEights · Sep 28, 2005, 08:08 PM // 20:08

All, first post on these boards. Alot of dicussion at to whether Monks have "ruined" the economy. After watching the 55/105 build and several of the more profitable farms get nerfed, I've yet to see anything but upwards spiral on cost. I would hypothesize that inflation is the result of folks buying millions of gold from EBay. How else to explain the thriving after market business around Lion's Arch and Ascalon? Just go there and sit for a bit on LA, District one and listen for the pricing. 25K for a Vampiric Pommel? Really... I've played for a couple of months and never sniffed 25K. The people buying don't exactly sound like wealthy solo, ecto farmers to me. The look like kids who got $40 for their birthday, turned it into 1000K or whatever, and look to be powerful powerfully quick. I'm not sure they are enjoying the view. It is a pretty game when you stop to look at it. BTW, I like to work on Solo builds, its just puzzle solving to me. I spent days working to develop a build and skill dexterity to solo the Hydra's. But got bored out of mind when I actually did it. Gurantee you that I lost money on it as well, but there was no way could I keep that up for any length of time, too slow. Anet should keep this in mind as they go about their business. If inflation is the problem, then the gold mongers on Ebay need to be dealt with. Nerfing skills/areas just reduces the ability of legit players to economically compete, solo or otherwise. Meanwhile, I intend to keep banging away playing with builds, enjoying the scenery, and ,oh, trying to finish the game before the next installment!

unienaule · Sep 28, 2005, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Please actually go look at the gold sellers on Ebay first. I wanted to get an idea of values on items, so I looked. Most of the gold on there has NO BIDS. I could be wrong, but I'd say next to no one buys Ebay gold. It's way overpriced.